RE: Comics! #25 [Favorite Characters]

Gregg will be taking a break for the next couple of weeks, but I'll be using that opportunity to bring in some guest columnists and keep the industry talk rolling in 2010! On deck is Acme favorite Chris Giarrusso, so check back next week for that piece of RE: Comics! history!

First, Gregg and I are starting off pretty easy and pretty close to home this week, this year, this DECADE, discussing our favorite characters and their various incarnations, costumes, and creative teams through the years.

Stephen Mayer: A former co-worker here at the shop once tried to attack me by saying that if I hadn’t read a particular Batman story, then I wasn’t a real Batman fan.

I responded that I was, indeed, not a Batman fan.

He quickly backed up on himself, saying that in that moment he recalled that I am, in fact, an X-Men fan.

Which I also pointed out that I wasn’t.

There are very few characters that I will put my name on because I just don’t have many favorites. Jermaine brought me up to follow creators as opposed to teams or titles, and that’s what’s been hardwired into me.

However, when I see somebody buying a terrible book because it has a guest spot with their most favoritest character or walking around the convention floor in a meticulously stitched homage to their persona of choice, I always envy them a bit.

So who are your favorite characters? What first endeared you to them? Do you have a favorite costume? What lengths would you go to in order to read a new story with them in it?

Gregg Schigiel: Oh, I have favorites. Though I like some characters for different reasons…some as a fan, some are fun to draw, some I have ideas for creatively, etc.

All around, I’m a Batman fan, so I really want to know what particular Batman story this individual claimed was THE Batman fan’s Batman story?

I’ve mentioned it before that I’ve always liked Power Pack, though it’s to the point where to date I’ve not glommed on to anyone else’s takes on them. It’s very weird to feel that “possessive” over characters I have no ownership or stake in. That said, I don’t own a hand-stitched Mass Master costume.

I’m a fan of Wonder Man and the Beast. I like Thor. I like the Hulk…and I particularly like drawing the Hulk.

I’ve always found The Creeper curiously appealing, despite never having been won over by many Creeper comics. He’s got an awesome look. I’ve always had a soft spot for The Black Knight, too.

Hellboy’s pretty great…and a lot of fun to draw.

I could go on and on and on.

But better to answer the next question as to what draws me (or anyone, really), to a particular character. For that I have to get into the “Back when I was an assistant editor at Marvel” machine:

Back when I was an assistant editor at Marvel we had “assistant editors’ classes”. Mark Gruenwald, as I understand it, used to do them back in the day, and this was a take on that. In alternating weeks Chris Claremont or Mark Waid sat with us and we’d discuss an aspect of comics, characters, etc. For example, in a Claremont class we chose either The Avengers or X-Men and proposed a team of seven (I think it was seven) and a six-issue arc for what we’d do with said title.

Meanwhile, and more to the point of this discussion, in a Waid class he asked us what drew us to the characters we were drawn to. What was the appeal of Spider-Man or Superman or Black Widow or Kitty Pryde. Some in the group talked about feeling like Spider-Man, with all his problems and foibles, was relatable…or the X-Men as outcasts were a reflection of how they, as a reader felt. My response came from a different angle: I liked characters because they had cool costumes or cool powers or, in a really basic kid way, were fun to pretend to be.

Batman drove the Batmobile and swung from buildings, his cape billowing with its scalloped edges…all kinds of gadgets in tiny vials of his utility belt. Hawkman or Angel had wings. WINGS! Green Arrow and Hawkeye had cool costumes and got to play with a bow and trick arrows. Thor had a hammer that he’d throw…and like a boomerang it’d come back to him! Marvel Girl moved stuff with her mind…like, just by thinking about it. That. Is. Awesome.

Meanwhile, I’d pin a blue towel around my neck and I was Batman. Red for Superman. The lid of a pot made me Captain America. A hammer let me be Thor. Bringing my middle and ring finger to the palm of my hand let me play Spider-Man.

So for me, superheroes, and we’ve talked about this to a degree in the past, apparently grabbed me as a kid appealing to that base, escapist, fantasy thing. I liked seeing characters do super-human stuff…and looking awesome doing it.

As an alleged adult my criteria’s changed. There are personality and character aspects to the cast of Fables that appeal to me in a way beyond costumes and powers…though, how rad was Boy Blue with that witching cloak? I mean, come on! Or when Bigby gets big and bad. The cool stuff is still super-cool. I’m not sure I’d read and enjoy a Great Machine comic as much as I enjoy “the adventures of Mayor Hundred” in Ex Machina.

But maturity aside, the Hulk’s way fun to draw.

But what do you mean, “to what lengths would you go to read a new story” with a certain character? Give me a for instance, would ya?

And, you say you don’t have favorites, but you love Kitty Pryde like she was a real person, don’t you?!

And don’t forget, what’s that all-important Batman storyline? 

Stephen: If I remember correctly, the Batman storyline in question was something like No Man’s Land. It wouldn’t be Arkham Asylum or Dark Knight Returns or Year One or Killing Joke or anything by Jeph Loeb like Dark Victory or Long Halloween or Hush or anything super key that everyone’s read. It was something that would have taken a little more interest or digging to ever get around to it.

Those assistant editor classes sound like a dream come true, to sit there and break down the craft like that with some of the all-time greats.

I DO love Kitty Pryde, but I won’t go as far as to say that I love her like she was a real person. Though I’ve always been aware of her, it wasn’t until Joss Whedon’s ASTONISHING X-MEN that she really caught my eye. As I sit here to think about it, I don’t know if that would have been the case without Emma Frost. Kitty was obviously the reader’s gateway to the new direction the X-Men were taking, and they flat out tell you that she’s there to keep Emma in check, but her history with the White Queen, who Carly already dug from Morrison’s NEW X-MEN, goes all the way back to both of their first appearances in Uncanny #129. I also think that Kitty has the best, most underestimated power of all the X-Men (like Sue Storm in the Fantastic Four), useful for defense and shorting out electronics (like in X-BABIES), but frightening in its scope as proposed by Jim McCann in the recent WHAT IF? ASTONISHING X-MEN.

I can also use her as an example for “what lengths I would go to read a story.” I read the Paul Smith drawn KITTY PRYDE: SHADOW AND FLAME mini from a few years ago, and I’ve read the PRYDE AND WISDOM mini by Warren Ellis and Terry Dodson from the 90’s, but I didn’t read the MEKANIX mini series and I’ve never read an issue of Excalibur. So I don’t have to read everything she’s in. Perhaps I can get more specific in saying that though I was going to try the new S.W.O.R.D. ongoing series by Kieron Gillen and Steven Saunders anyway, it was the back-up story in issue #1 by Gillen and Jamie McKelvie that teased the possibility of Kitty’s return that has me waiting on every issue now.

Some other examples might be Deadpool fans buying three ongoing series (DEADPOOL, MERC WITH A MOUTH, and TEAM-UP), guest spots in X-Force and Amazing Spider-man, and 15 variant covers in February to not miss a mouthy moment (I did buy the Marvel 70th Anniversary variant to Wolverine First Class having never read another issue of the series because it did have a Takeshi Miyazawa Kitty on it). One more for the road would be AGENTS OF ATLAS fans losing that series’ $2.99 ongoing title and following them into THUNDERBOLTS and the MARVEL BOY: URANIAN and AVENGERS VS. AGENTS OF ATLAS mini series (all written by Jeff Parker, to be fair).

To open up a little more, giving folks a longer look behind the curtain:

I am a fan of Rose Red from FABLES. Her buoyancy in the earlier issues was such a great foil to Snow White and to see where she’s at now emotionally is heart-breaking in an extremely well-crafted way. Her fumbling with Jack was the only part of the Great Fables Crossover that moved me at all. I look forward to seeing her rise to her full potential, hopefully here soon against Mister Dark.

I am a fan of Scott Pilgrim, obviously from the series of the same name. This is no doubt due to me being in my twenties and feeling all too often that I need to “get it together.”

I am a fan of Kate Corrigan. She’s my favorite character from HELLBOY/B.P.R.D. John Arcudi kidded to Guy Davis at Baltimore Comic Con that he wouldn’t have to worry about personalizing my Kate sketch because if I put it up on eBay, no one else would want it.

I am a fan of Yorick Brown from Y THE LAST MAN. SEE: Scott Pilgrim reasoning. Lacking his slight of hand skills I wouldn’t last nearly as long in his post-apocalyptic world. I even dressed up as Yorick for Halloween in 2004.

HAHA That turned out like a mission statement.

A little weird that none of the members from my favorite team books like UMBRELLA ACADEMY or NEXTWAVE: AGENTS OF H.A.T.E. or SECRET WARRIORS made that list.

But I guess I just identify more with characters, like you were saying was the case for other members in your class, rather than being wowed by their abilities.

Since you are an admitted Batman fan, Carly and I were having a discussion a couple of weeks ago in which she argued that Superman would be way better to hang out with because Batman seems like a big jerk. Care to defend the Dark Knight?  

Gregg: Insofar as lengths one goes, I’m maybe less dedicated a fan. For example, I haven’t picked up S.W.O.R.D., despite liking Beast. It’s mostly because I don’t like this cat-style Beast (though I flipped though S.W.O.R.D. and the way he’s drawn in there is mental (in a good way))…but also the first issue was $3.99, which…even with a discount I have a LOT of trouble paying $4 for a comic (so again I thank anyone and everyone who’s been buying X-Babies…believe you me, if I could price it lower, know that I would!).

But that puts to mind the idea that you can like a character from a specific period and leave it at that…like people who like I don’t know, think Harrison Ford got lame after The Fugitive…or the Star Wars prequels sucked…or that Saturday Night Live hasn’t been good since the original cast…or Eddie Murphy…or Phil Hartman and Dana Carvey…or Sandler/Farley/Rock/Spade/Myers…or Will Ferrell and Tina Fey…

On some level you maybe subsist on the nostalgia/memory of what it is you specifically glommed on to. Years ago Mark Evanier wrote a column about that in Comics Buyers’ Guide…about choosing which continuity for a character would be YOUR continuity. This was at a time when you had Death of Superman and Nightfall and Ben Reilly, etc. And he was basically saying, if I recall correctly, you can in your own mind decide “this is who Superman is to me; this is MY Superman” and call it a day. I’ve done that to a degree, surely.

I like the Beast I like and remember fondly. I’m a pre-Disassembled Avengers guy. When I consider Power Pack it’s the original series and my notions of what I’d have done given the opportunity. It’s sort of the benefit of these things having such a long lifespan…you can find the moments.

If anything, I’m maybe bothered that others might not get to experience those characters and stories the way I did, but I also have to acknowledge that each reader has their own experience and try not to sound like an immovable fuddy-duddy who’s not open to new ideas or takes on characters.

I never quite understood or cared about Blue Devil until I read SHADOWPACT and found I really dug him, so much so that I pick up back issues when I see them in discount bins at conventions. Then again, I didn’t buy the Underworld whatever mini-series that followed SHADOWPACT with Blue Devil in it because it wasn’t Willingham writing it (which goes to show I might be more inclined to go to lengths to follow a creator than a character).

But in terms of experiencing a character; I read “Batman: Year One” and thought it was awesome. I remember reading a 3-issue mini called “The Untold Legend of Batman” that was a 3-issue, “in depth” version of Batman’s origin. I loved it. It was one of the coolest things ever. And that must be what it was like for people to see Batman Begins.

As for hanging out with Superman or Batman…I think it depends on which version of Batman we’re talking about.  If it’s Batman as he’s been in comics since 1988 or so, yeah, he’s much less fun and pretty one-dimensional. But if it’s the ‘50s through the mid ‘80s era, I choose Batman (he and Robin had good times!). Superman might be more comfortable and polite and pleasant in some ways, but it might get a little boring. He might be able to fly you around, but Batman could hand you a batarang to fiddle with or an air-rebreather so you can breathe underwater.

Bruce Wayne, meanwhile, would be considerably more fun and interesting to kick it with than Clark Kent…by a landslide!

Stephen: Since I don’t have an exceptionally consistent comic reading history beyond the last six years, I don’t ever feel like I’ve been wronged by a character. That could also have something to do with most of the characters that I cited above as my favorites are usually creator-owned and handled with care by one or two people throughout their existence. Even when Kitty “died” I had prepped myself for the possibility and I was o.k. with the way she went.

I am however able to agree with Mark Evanier’s theory in a big way. In addition to my new books, I’m always trying to re-read something that’s key at the moment and read something for the first time that would have started at least 10 years ago. That goes back to my earliest days at the store, picking up the Avengers Assemble hardcovers to read Busiek and Perez’s run and then checking out THUNDERBOLTS as a companion or currently reading the Dan Jurgens/John Romita Jr. run on Thor that you and I have talked about on the side.

When I inquired about Legion of Super Heroes, Matt and Jermaine directed me towards the post-Zero Hour Legion. As I raided the back issues boxes for everything I could get my hands on, Matt stood by and warned me that everything I was buying was great, but I would hit a point after Abnett and Lanning’s THE LEGION where everything I loved would be wiped away by Infinite Crisis. Maybe knowing that ahead of time helped, but when the time came I switched up to Mark Waid and Barry Kitson’s Legion vol. 4 without a hitch and started all over. I recently went through that process again, having picked up Peter David’s post-Zero Hour Aquaman run with the ATLANTIS CHRONICLES mini series and enjoying it thoroughly, only to be told that none of that counts in the post-Infinite Crisis world either. So I guess both the 1994 Legion and Aquaman would be my heroes, without quibbling over where those characters are now.

Everyone around the store also says that whatever incarnation of Doctor Who you encounter first will always be your favorite, so Christopher Eccleston forever!

To go back to a point that you made much earlier in the column about the Creeper, I’m the same way with Zatanna and Black Canary. I don’t think I’ve ever loved a comic with either of them in it (except maybe Zatanna: Everyday Magic by Paul Dini and Rick Mays). I really enjoyed all of their appearances in the DC Animated Universe though, so maybe that’s where the credit is due.

So zeroing in still further, do you have favorite costumes or designs or artists for guys like Beast, Wonder Man, Batman, etc.? 

 

Gregg: So clearly you like fishnet stockings, hence Zatanna and Black Canary. That’s fair. Maybe I like red fur collars?

I have a similar theory to the Dr. Who theory with Mel Brooks movies. There’s a generation that loves Blazing Saddles…another that loves History of the World, Part One…and another that loves Space Balls…some people might even like Robin Hood: Men in Tights. I think that depends on how old you were when you first experience your respective Mel Brooks movie. Meanwhile, Dr. Who was on PBS when I was a kid and it was so weird and creepy it’s pretty much permanently kept me away from it.

And I think it’s less feeling wronged by a character than it’s feeling a character’s been done wrong and changed in a way that he/she/it is no longer the same as the character you enjoyed.

Specifying faves? Alright, here we go:

Batman: Blue and Gray, yellow oval on the bag symbol, and the utility belt with vials instead of pouches. Alan Davis did a run on DETECTIVE that I still look at from time to time I dig it so much. I really liked Norm Breyfogle’s Batman work. David Mazzuchelli did beautiful stuff in Year One. Neal Adams and Bruce Timm, certainly. And Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez, for what to me will always be the definite superhero Batman. I’m sure I’m forgetting someone.

Wonder Man: He’s been pretty solid across the board. I’m a little out of touch more recently as I’ve sort of gotten off the bus since “Disassembled”. I liked him in his own series, when Jeff Johnson was drawing it. That was a good book. And I liked the older school, Avengers/Safari Jacket version…less for the visual and more for the character – a virtually indestructible man who was afraid to die (having died already) and having major self-esteem/self-image issues (there was a time he wore sunglasses so people wouldn’t see his red eyes as he was self conscious…and he had grayish hair…such an interesting combination of elements). Which is sort of what made him such a great team with…

The Beast: I like him blue and furry. I like him human looking with the big hands and feet. I don’t like this cat version. I don’t like when he’s a sad sack in a lab coat. He’s a brainy guy who doesn’t show off…he’s a jock who doesn’t show off. He’s fun and gets a kick out of being a superhero. That’s the version of the Beast I like. He’s a social character, which is why him being stuck in a lab or being all high-and-mighty professorial doesn’t jive with me. He’s not just a furry Mr. Fantastic.

Thor by John Buscema is where it’s at. John Romita, Jr. and Walt Simonson would come after him.

And John Bogdanove’s Power Pack was the best, hands down, all respect due to June Brigman.

But this kind of list can go on for days…it’s a very open question in a certain respect.

I tend to like cleaner, more streamlined costumes…things that are clearly a superhero costume. I remember Carlos Pacheco talking about character design and saying how, in a group, it’s important that the characters and costumes read clearly as shapes and/or colors, so if there’s a shot of them from a distance or in silhouette, you know who’s who. That kind of approach…making them readable and distinct, I’m in line with that.

But those are very specific characters to me. We might as well get into the bigger, more classic debates:

Green Lantern costumes: Hal/Traditional, Guy Gardner, or the myriad Kyle Raynor suits?

Flash: Barry Allen or Wally West when Wieringo was drawing it (white eyes, shiny suit)?

Spider-Man: Red & Blue, Black, or Ben Reilly? Armpit webbing or no?

Batman: yellow oval or no yellow oval? Ears; long or short?

Thor: classic or current? Beard or not beard? And does the Simonson armor trump all?

Wonder Woman: Shorts or Skirt?

Aquaman: Orange and Green or Harpoon-Hand version?

Hulk: Rampaging, Smart, Cunning? Green or Grey?

Wolverine: Brown & Tan, Yellow & Blue, or cowboy hat and bomber jacket?

Fantastic Four: Blue & Black or Blue & White? 

 

Stephen: Green Lantern: traditional Hal over Guy or Kyle, but I do like some variations on the look, like Arisia.

Flash: Wally West (I'm just starting to read Mark Waid's run, but I've also really dug Terminal Velocity a little later on in the series).

Spider-man: Gotta be the red and blues. I'm not opposed to the armpit webbing, but I don't like when it randomly appears in another book or in a new artist's interpretation.

Batman: When I really think about it, I love the handful of times Mike Mignola has drawn him, I prefer the redesign from Batman the Animated Series/Justice League to the original on the show, and the first Batman design I remember really taking my breath away was Tim Sale's from Long Halloween, so definitely black and gray with a regular symbol on the chest. Long ears are fine, but not Kelley Jones long.

Thor: Perez for the classic costume, Coipel for the new one.

Wonder Woman: Darwyn Cooke from New Frontier, so shorts instead of the skirt.

Aquaman: Having just finished Peter David's run with the hook hand and that being the design for the animated universe, I'm sticking with the harpoon hand.

Hulk: I like the Bruce Timm shirt that came out a couple years ago, Green Hulk with purple/blue pants.

Wolverine: My first instinct would be the blue and yellow he's sported in the majority of the comics I've read, but the kid in me flashes back to the Pryde of the X-Men special and the Uncanny X-Men arcade game, so I'll go with brown and yellow.

Fantastic Four: White and blue. 

Gregg: Alright…alright.

Your relative newness to comics fascinates me. I think in our next discussion we should talk about how we got into comics in the first place. I think I might learn something, if not a lot, from your path to comics.

Harpoon hand…with the metal half-chest plate? You’re nuts.

And young man…all due respect to Perez, who is great and a super-sweet man, but you’d best learn a thing or two about John Buscema…for Thor or just about anyone else. Trust me.

I’ll say this, as a bit of balance…and to play to my darker impulses; worst versions:

Spider-Man: A tie between Red Armor look and the Scarlet Spider/blue muscle shirt over-top look.

Green Lantern: Kyle Raynor’s first costume or the weird Jim Lee one with the tubing along the arms and legs

Flash: I don’t quite get the “new” Wally West Flash design and what it brings to the party. Why not just go back to the shiny, white-eyed version ‘Ringo (and Pacheco, and the DC Animated Universe) did so well? Though at least he’s not in armor or anything like that.

Batman: Jean-Paul Valley/Nightfall Armored Batman

Thor: There were two pre-Heroes Reborn looks that were TERRIBLE…both with terrible shoulder pads.

Wonder Woman: she hasn’t had a lot of variety, but there was a period where she rocked bicycle shorts and a weird bustier…that could have been better

Aquaman: the harpoon/beard/half-armor you love so much (sorry, pal)

Hulk: ah, Hulk’s pretty solid across the board

Wolverine: Can’t say I’m digging his current get-up with all the weird piping and all that. And despite it being drawn by the aforementioned ”Big” John Buscema, I never much liked the “Patch” persona/look

FF: I’m not loving the current short sleeves…

I’d ask if there’s a character you dig that you think should get a bigger spotlight or shot at some kind of attention…but I almost feel like we’ve talked about it already. Have we?

I wondered, if in this discussion, we might, or rather I might, find a common thread or theme to what makes a character or characters our respective favorites…but aside from you liking characters who are similar to you in demographic (Scott Pilgrim, Yorick Brown)…and me liking characters for whom I prefer in concept or versions from the past, do you see anything that I don’t? Do Batman, Beast, Wonder Man and Power Pack have a common thread? 

Stephen: I’m gonna stop us there. We were starting simple this week and took things further than I would have expected, but I think we’re better off leaving that last question rhetorical, giving the kind readers something to mull over with their own favorites here at the beginning of 2010. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Gregg Schigiel is a cartoonist, illustrator, and writer. He's worked as a penciller and editor for Marvel Comics and an illustrator and cartoonist at Nickelodeon in addition to creating his own characters and books. He's currently writing X-Babies for Marvel with artist Jacob Chabot and writing and drawing Pix: Teenage American Fairy and Safari Junior High, appearing in the back of the G-Man: Cape Crisis mini series from Image. Check out his website at Hatter Entertainment.com.

Stephen Mayer makes his mama proud using up all of his gift certificates and eating hot soup on a cold day.