RE: Comics! #19 [Wonder Woman]

   

Coming off plenty of rest following the G-Man's Greensboro Cape Crisis event, we're jumping into what could have easily become a really controversial topic, princess of the Amazons, "Holy Ghost" of the DC Trinity according to Mike Madrid's SUPERGIRLS, much beloved, yet scantly read, WONDER WOMAN!

First be sure to check out Gregg's write-up on his time spent in the Gate City and watch his video interview from the big day!

Also, many of the pictures used in this blog came from Project Rooftop, a great costume re-design blog moderated by Dean Trippe!

Stephen Mayer: She was created in 1941 and she’s obviously considered one of DC Comics’ “Big Three” along with Superman and Batman, but of the three she has the lowest selling solo title around these parts and from talking to most people, they’ll tell you that the definitive run during her 68 years of publication was written by Greg Rucka five years ago and only lasted 31 issues.

So to put it as broadly as possible, “What’s the deal with Wonder Woman?”

My own recent WW baggage coming into this week’s column is two-fold. Listening to the 15 Minutes with Mark Waid podcast on the way into work today, Mark stated that Diana is one of the few DC characters he never felt he drew a good bead on, as a goddess, as a warrior, as a secret agent, whatever. Arguably, no one on the planet knows more about DC characters than Waid, yet he still doesn’t feel that he has a handle on her.

Then a little later on in the day I got a phone call from a mother that’s throwing her 7 year old daughter a Wonder Woman themed birthday party and wanted age appropriate stories about the Amazonian to pass out as party favors, to which I had to point out that there’s currently nothing published for young girls idolizing Wonder Woman to get into her mythos specifically.

Gregg Schigiel: And therein lies the rub!

Quick aside: I’d suggest, at the very least, issues of Super Friends and/or Justice League Unlimited that might have Wonder Woman in them. Outside of comics there’s a lot of Wonder Woman stuff, too, like branded journals, accessories, things like that. And with Halloween around the corner they might be able to get a hold of a bunch of tiaras and bracelets…but again, none of that stuff is comics…or even readable. Which brings us back to “What’s the deal with Wonder Woman?”

This topic came up last weekend when customer Erica asked me my thoughts on Wonder Woman. That conversation got me thinking, and the idea I touched upon then and thought on since is that maybe Wonder Woman is an idea not meant for grown-ups. Maybe it’s a concept best presented and tailor made for younger readers (I’m not even gonna say specifically girls, though the implication is certainly there).

I think similarly of Aquaman, that he too might best be suited for a younger, less…jaded audience…one that won’t think communicating with sea life is a “stupid” power, for example.

So Wonder Woman: maybe the take on Wonder Woman is to not try and find a “take” on Wonder Woman that will appeal to modern comics readers. My take on Wonder Woman is that she’s not made for the generally accepted version of the modern reader. But younger readers might not be so ready to say “Invisible jet? That’s stupid” or immediately see S&M in Wonder Woman using a lasso as her weapon (which may well have been the original conceit, but again, that’s a thing for adults to key in on more than anything else).

To that point, I just listened to that Mark Waid podcast you mentioned and it only reaffirmed my thinking on this. He says she should’ve ceased publication in 1948. He talks about how her original conception was about gender politics and all and how somehow that’s a thing that can’t be explored properly in this day and age. That’s like saying race isn’t an issue in America since Obama was elected president.

Gail Simone mentioned in her “Wonder of Wonders” column on CBR, women and girls and non-comics readers LOVE Wonder Woman and that she still remains a symbol to a lot of folks…yet none of them READ Wonder Woman comics. She suggests the character might be bigger than any take any writer might have. Therein might be the answer.

I’m saying go back to Wonder Woman as an icon for the audience that wants and appreciates that icon.

In the same way that Batman: The Animated Series or Batman: The Brave and the Bold present an iconic, singular version of Batman…that exist without and despite continuity, Wonder Woman should get a similar treatment.

To that end, it might be worth considering a change to the package.

I suggested last Saturday that maybe instead of having Jodi Piccoult write a Wonder Woman arc, what if DC had her write a Wonder Woman novel…you could even have illustrations a la the Fables novel, PETER & MAX.

For younger readers deliver a package those readers might get to see…a series of original graphic novels, or storybooks, or illustrated chapter books.

Look, I love comics. I love the medium and storytelling style. But I guess I’ve split the question up a bit. I suppose I’m not even answering “What’s the deal?” but more “How are Wonder Woman and WW Fans best served?”

It seems there’s been a desire to run away from, reinvent, or modernize the icon (which for many is Lynda Carter on TV as Wonder Woman). But the question there is why? And for whom?

I submit that Wonder Woman exists as counter-programming to Barbie, for the same audience. She’s got all the surface qualities of Barbie, but instead of shopping and being bad at Math, she kicks ass and pals around with superheroes.

And like in comics, there are still adults who have fondness for and even still collect Barbie stuff. 

Stephen: This is my third full length stab at responding. Your contribution was just so well put together that I’m finding it impossible to eloquently penetrate any part of your argument, but here goes one last shot.

I do think that there’s an adult audience longing for good Wonder Woman stories. Minutes ago I spoke with another customer that happened to be one of the first I encountered as an employee here at Acme three years ago. This was during Allan Heinberg re-launch, post-Infinite Crisis, with artist Terry Dodson. The customer in question asked me when the next issue was set to come out and I explained that the writer was busy producing the O.C. and Grey’s Anatomy for television and writing comics was more of a hobby for him. The customer stared back at me and stated, “I don’t care. Where’s Diana?"

Regardless of the delayed timetable for the book or the new “take” Heinberg had on the character, burying the most recognizable female superhero in obscurity after the heavy sanctions leveled against her following the murder of Maxwell Lord, at some point in the character’s history she made such an impact on this now grown man that he wanted to know where his goddess, his heroine, his friend Diana, princess of the Amazons, was to be found.

That’s not to say that there aren’t fair-weather enthusiasts as well. There’s a female customer that found her way into the store questing for new issues of Buffy season 8. She eventually began inquiring about Wonder Woman merchandise. We’re now at the point that we order every action figure, statue, bust, t-shirt, doll and neon sign with a WW on it with her in mind and this subscriber will buy it without question. While she’ll buy any Angel tie-in book and has expanded her list to include Pride and Prejudice (marketed at “comic guy girlfriends”) and the Wonderful Wizard of Oz, she has never tried Wonder Woman’s title, be it during Heinberg’s re-launch or Jodi Picoult’s much-hyped yet lack-luster arc or Gail Simone’s prodigal start (which SUPERGIRLS author Mike Madrid described thusly: “As the Amazon princess had been saying for over 60 years, some things just require a woman’s touch.”).

DC seems just as lost in their promotional licensing for the character. This summer, at conventions across the country, patrons of the DC booth could pick up Black Lantern rings and Black and Green Lantern buttons promoting Blackest Night, Flash buttons and posters backing Flash: Rebirth, and Wonder Woman buttons and tiaras promoting…? Even folks inside the editorial offices understand a need for merchandise while ignoring promotion or production of a top quality book.

I guess what I’m saying is that I agree that there’s room for young adult or all-ages centric Wonder Woman stories. SUPERGIRL: COSMIC ADVENTURES IN THE 8TH GRADE had a die-hard group of young girls stoked to come to the comic shop, and nothing has followed up that enthusiasm in the 2 months since the series conclusion. But at the same time you can’t take away any shot, any hope, of another character defining run for adult readers or another “re-imagining” by the likes of Warren Ellis in Planetary or Alan Moore in Promethea.

That said, what image comes to your mind when you think of Wonder Woman, or what are some of your favorite Wonder Woman stories? What’s your icon of the character? 

Gregg: Thanks for thinking I’m so coherent, but I’m sure there are many who’d disagree and/or lambaste me for them. Certainly there’s lots of continuity and history I have, by virtue of my own ignorance, ignored in my assessment.

Like many others I’ve not been a huge Wonder Woman follower. I know George Perez had a well-regarded run on the book, which I never read. Nor have I read Rucka’s run. I read a good chunk in the mid to late ‘90s (we’re talking Artemis stuff and John Byrne’s introducing the new Wonder Girl). And I’ve been reading it post-Infinite Crisis (though I never read the end of the Heinberg story). I’ve quite enjoyed Gail Simone’s run, which I think does a fine job striking a balance between the pure superhero aspects and the more woman-centric, more grown-up ideas behind Wonder Woman. Though I think I’ve had quite enough of WW snapping necks.

But I don’t have a specific “vision” for Wonder Woman. As far as iconic versions, as I mentioned, there’s the Lynda Carter TV Wonder Woman…and the Wonder Woman from the Super Friends is one I remember as a kid. She was always very reasoned and responsible in that…but so were all the Super Friends, really. I’ve tended to like her in Justice League Unlimited, where she seems to do just fine as one of the power players.

And since I’ve digressed to animation, I’m pretty sure those tiara giveaways were to promote the DVD movie, which I’ve heard is pretty great. I’ve not yet seen it, but it’s entirely possible, based on the output of DC’s animation and the folks behind it, there might be the “take” to end all takes.

Speaking of takes, back when Johnny DC got its new sort of directive with TINY TITANS, SUPER FRIENDS, etc, I’d heard/read that J. Bone and Darwyn Cooke had pitched a full year of an all-ages Wonder Woman book….a pitch that clearly never took hold. To my mind, especially in light of what you’ve said about fans of Supergirl, that could have been a game-changer. Then again, it’s not like DC went ahead with a new Supergirl mini either.

In the end, it pains me to say it, but the direct comics market is not really a place that plays to (a) a female audience and (b) a young, female audience. Which is a real shame, because those are some voracious readers, who, if Wonder Woman is any indication, really retain fondness for the things they take to as children.

And that speaks to something well beyond this discussion, which is the overall structure of the comics business, where the content has grown-up alongside its audience as opposed to, as say the Disney model of yore, operating under the idea that the audience turns over every 7 years…and that eventually children who loved the material as kids would have kids and would want to share with them, etc.

But it is quite interesting that while Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and The Hulk all have both public, mass-media “popularity” as well as a place in “real” comics, Wonder Woman seems to only have the public popularity and doesn’t have that foothold with comics readers.

Could it all come down to, gulp, a double-standard in comics readership?! It wouldn’t be the only popular culture with pretty clear gender lines (sports, soap operas, action movies, rom-coms, etc)…which could make someone just say, “well, that’s just how it is.”

But when Spider-Man and Batman can support multiple monthly titles/output, it’s something to note that Manhunter, Black Canary, Spider-Girl, She-Hulk, etc, etc, can’t or seem to struggle to carry monthly titles.

Mercifal Minerva, I’ve gone a bit off topic, huh?

If we don’t want to go down that treacherous ground, I’ll keep it to Wonder Woman:

Long rumored is a Wonder Woman movie. Also long rumored have been potential casting, from Joss Whedon saying he’d have wanted Cobie Smulders from How I Met Your Mother, Megan Fox’s poo-pooing the character, Jennifer Love Hewitt saying she’d love to play her, as well as rumors of Beyonce as Princess Diana. What do you think of that business and who do you cast as Wonder Woman in a live-action presentation of the character? 

Stephen: The image of Wonder Woman that always comes to mind for me is the back cover pin-up from NEW FRONTIER where she's blocking the bullets with her bracelets. I was lucky enough to see the original art at Heroes Con 2008.

To take the easy road, that being the Wonder Woman movie question, I'd have to say that it's been hard to picture anyone other than Cobie Smulders in the role ever since Joss let that little tidbit leak when it was announced that he was no longer attached to the project. At the time I had never seen an episode of How I Met Your Mother and I had no idea who she was, but thanks to a well-timed sale at Target I got completely caught up on the show in 2 weeks and I think she would be great. I would guess that she lacks the star power I studio would be looking for to protect there $100,000,000.00 investment that a movie on that scale would end up becoming.

As for the other leading ladies that you mentioned. Megan Fox is a pretty terrible actress, so good ridance if she doesn't want the part. Jennifer Love Hewitt just had the first issue of the comic she created, MUSIC BOX, hit the shelves this week, so maybe that foray into the realm of comics on a professional level is her way of appealing to fanboy affections in the same way that Nicolas Cage named his son Kal-El to try and score Superman.

Just when you thought I was never gonna get back into the meat of things, I call an audible! Let's let the modern, female comic reader have her say! And I can think of no one more qualified to comment on it than my lovely girlfriend, Carly. Take it away! 

Carly Storum: So much of what it means to be a woman is tied up in the physical representation.  Most media designed for women falls into two categories.  The "normal" woman who is self-critical and struggles to be self-aware.  She is often sarcastic, clumsy or funny to make up for the fact that she is not drop dead gorgeous (though "normal" women are often portrayed by very beautiful women--Tina Fey, Kitty Pryde, Bella from Twilight).  This is the standard representation of women found in romantic comedies, romance novels and sitcoms.  The "normal" woman is driven by the goal of domesticity.  She is out to find a man who will love her and protect her despite her faults.  This is considered the female fantasy and so it isn't too surprising that an industry driven by male heterosexual readers isn't crying out for more "normal" women.  

The second type is the bombshell.  She is all sex, smart and unafraid to walk in a man's world.  Often these women are devoid of any sense of humor.  They aren't sarcastic or clumsy because they know their place in the world and aren't afraid to own it.  I think that place is somewhere between superbit** and sexpot.  These are usually the women found in catalogs, movies and (quite a few) comics. 

I don't think Wonder Woman fits into either category.  She is physically almost as strong as Superman and is still regarded as the most beautiful woman in the world.  The "normal" woman has flaws, WW doesn't have any physical flaws.  She isn't outwardly sexual (despite Frank Miller's DK story) or aggressive (she's a peacekeeper).  I think that makes her hard to write.  What does she want in life?  I think this makes her a hard character for both men and women to read.  She is a woman who is superior to most of her contemporaries.  She is compassionate and reasonable too.  But who wants to read a story about a woman who doesn't have a little drama?  What else is there to gain once you've got it all.  She already has love, acceptance and equality (at least outwardly).  Outside of her spangled briefs what else is there for her to worry about?

Her origin has been shifted and re-written so many times that one can't say she knows her place in the world.  She's been naive, naughty, docile, aggressive, statuesque, and delicate.  However, none of these sides are combined, they don't add to her personality.  Batman's personality is driven by revenge and fear.  Superman is driven by a sense of justice and a need for belonging.  There are lots of gender role issues with both of these characters, but I'm simplifying my argument here, so please no flames. 

What is Wonder Woman?  I don't believe she is any one thing because she's changed so much and so often over the years.  Honestly, I think it is difficult for male writers to rationalize the two "types" of what it means to be a woman into a strong character.  I don't mean to say that there aren't quite a few talented male writers out there with great female leads, but I don't think that there are too many female superheroes not driven by a need for a man or the need for her place in the world.  And so, I think Wonder Woman comes off as more alien than Clark Kent.  To me she lacks depth beyond the idea of the spangled panties.

I think that there could be a great kids/young adult series about WW.  I picture it being a lot like Hercules the TV show.  Young Diana going around beating bad guys and breaking a few hearts.  I think where her story falls apart is when the woman part of Wonder Woman comes into play.  Her concept is very childish and simple.  The modern woman has sex before marriage, dates losers, pays taxes, etc.  Wonder Woman is chaste, has a lasso of truth to edit out all potential love and heartbreak, and is rich to boot.  I just can't imagine her as a player in this age of modern superheroes.  She is a female ideal, while still remaining asexual and non-threatening.

The only Wonder Woman I've identified with is from New Frontier.  That Diana knew her place in the world.  She was strong and powerful.  She was not afraid to show either of them.  She did not bow down to Superman or to the standard of justice her society upheld.  She did what she felt was right, for better or worse.  If you haven't read New Frontier I'm leaving this very vague to not spoil anything.  She comes from a culture that already has peace.  There are so many things in this world that are frustrating, evils that are difficult for us to justify or remedy.  Wonder Woman has the ability and really only has herself to answer to.  Why would she be afraid to be strong?  Why does she always have to don the guise of female peacekeeper and fight with words?  Why is it easier to pair her up against a sea monster than it is to have her best Batman?  I'm not just talking about physically either.  There has to be a middle ground. 

Gregg: I ain’t goin’ toe-to-toe with Carly on this one. She makes some good points, particularly the notion of Wonder Woman as an ideal, so what does she need/desire/strive for. To that end it might be why I’ve liked what Gail Simone’s done, as it seems she’s sought out that middle ground, showing a confident, badass Wonder Woman who is still quite alien to the world…and now alienated in more recent issues.

And maybe I’m being naïve, but I never realize the star-spangled bottoms were such a hot button issue. I haven’t drawn Wonder Woman much, but now I’m thinking, if/when I do, I might put her in short-shorts instead (I was gonna write hot-pants or boy-shorts, but thought that might play to the whole gender-politics thing).

And to the other bit of fanboy fun-times: casting Wonder Woman. I remember hearing that nugget about Cobie Smulders and thinking, “What?! No way! She’s too…pleasant.” But, that might also be because I had other notions given the prospect. If the world weren’t so afraid of casting someone over 30, I’d say Paget Brewster (Andy Richter Controls the Universe, Huff, Criminal Minds). If the idea was to go full-bore sexpot/exotic-ish, I say Rhona Mitra (Boston Legal, Nip/Tuck). Also from Boston Legal, if briefly, Lake Bell. And if the idea is to go young, either to appeal to younger folks or build a franchise, I got my pick for that this very weekend when I saw Zombieland: Emma Stone. (though, considering the slow pace for a Wonder Woman movie to actually happen, it might end up being Abigail Breslin as Wonder Woman in 2016…)

So, dare I say…at the end of all this talk of “What’s the deal with Wonder Woman?” we’re no closer, really, to having figured it out?

There’s surely an answer out there somewhere, right? Maybe Jermaine knows… 

Stephen: I'd love to see Emma Stone play Donna Troy to any of those Wonder Woman. 

One last point, since we've skirted around the topic of the direct market being somewhat of an uninviting place for women, here at Acme we've always strived to make an accepting environment for guy and girl, young and old, new reader and seasoned veteran alike. Angela Outlaw, assistant manager of Comicopia in Boston, said in a video interview that they pride themselves on hooking ladies that come into the store with their beaus onto a trade paperback or comic. I love to exercise that kind of attitude here in the store, approaching the unsuspecting or apathetic and putting their new favorite thing in their hands. Unfortunately, there is always something said by someone at some point during the week that seems to take us right back to the lazy, testosterone-filled, primordial goo of the Simpsons Comic Shop Guy.

I suppose you're right, we're not really much closer to an answer on Wonder Woman, or no more so than we have been on any of the other topics, but as always it's been a blast getting there.

And I owe Carly a black & white cookie for getting me out of that jam.

 

Gregg Schigiel is a cartoonist, illustrator, and writer. He's worked as a penciller and editor for Marvel Comics and an illustrator and cartoonist at Nickelodeon in addition to creating his own characters and books. He's currently writing X-Babies for Marvel with artist Jacob Chabot and writing and drawing Pix: Teenage American Fairy and Safari Junior High, appearing in the back of the G-Man: Cape Crisis mini series from Image. Check out his website at Hatter Entertainment.com.

Stephen Mayer makes his mama proud trying on the shorts that she bought him for winter and cutting the grass one last time for the year.